Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

That perspective may or may not be entirely helpful to you, and that's fine, but it's also understandable that people here either do not know how to adequately respond to this, or have very strong opinions on it.

yeah thats fair i probably shouldve left this server as soon as i noticed this was going on. but we like it here. and we want to be able to be open to the possibility that Maybe its Not a disorder and we're just quirky tulpamancers!

That's understandable. I have criticisms of this server and how its general userbase contributes to discussions like this one, but it's generally because they're coming from an entirely different lived experience than someone with disordered plurality.

7:34 AM

I don't feel comfortable telling you that this is or is not a "normal" experience, or that you do or do not have a disorder, and I feel like the only person who should be able to assess that with accuracy is a professional.

1

Luminesce: If you can't stop headmates from forming when trying to, then that's a disorder, unless you're just really messy with mental self-discipline. (edited)

I think that disordered systems can still benefit from tulpamancy practices, but it's understandable if their practices do not always apply to a non-tulpa or disordered system.

7:35 AM

I don't really recommend asking around in disordered servers. I do somewhat agree on KitKat's part that those spaces tend to have the same issues this one does, but in the opposite way, if that makes sense.

7:36 AM

You're getting a biased perspective from people with limited lived experiences.

7:36 AM

It can be difficult to assess things personally with so many differing opinions, which is why I think asking a professional is the fastest, safest bet to getting closure and potential treatment with what's bothering you.

sorry for the late reply, was talking to my brother yeah that all makes sense. im thinking tomorrow if this headache lets up im gonna contact that one emdr therapist that specializes in dissociation because i dont think this can wait for a diagnosis and if hes accepting patients that would be great to get a start on tackling all this

you will not believe me but a lot of that comes from paying too much attention to “is it this or that, what do i call it?” Rather than accepting things as they are If you didn’t build a habit of sticking labels on things, you would be experiencing what you are experiencing now in a very different way You experience what you fo because of the narrative you build around it The narrative is built around the labels you use

9:17 AM

all of my talking about it is to avoid situations like the one above

9:20 AM

if it wasn’t for plurality… you would just go to see the doctor that prescribed your meds and talk to them about the symptoms But since plurality is involved, this is not the first thing that comes to your mind

Iota ˗ˏˋM&M´ˎ˗

That's understandable. I have criticisms of this server and how its general userbase contributes to discussions like this one, but it's generally because they're coming from an entirely different lived experience than someone with disordered plurality.

Ummm i would probably just point out a different perspective and say that you should just see what your doctor says, as usual

Momo Utkin 🍄

considering the amount of

involuntary switches
bloody. cluster headaches and migraines
dissociation and blurriness
involuntary "walk-ins"/"splits"/whatever the fuck you want to call it
memory problems

i dont think this is within the realm of tulpamancy atp. ik kitkat will just tell me im wrong but im tired of this, its really affecting us and it has been for years whether you want to hear it or not

Please stop asking people to diagnose you all as a traumatic system here. We are not doctors and cannot diagnose you. It's okay to be confused or uncertain about your plurality, but it's not okay to expect us to agree with you on your self-diagnosis. Since this is not the first time I told you all to stop, this is a warning (edited)

im just going to see what my psychiatrist says.

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧ ↩️

Reply to: Ummm i would probably just point out a different perspective and say that you should just see what y…

11:28 AM

also god damn im out of here i was just trying to discuss what was going on when the hell did i ever ask someone to diagnose me

Momo Utkin 🍄

also god damn im out of here i was just trying to discuss what was going on when the hell did i ever ask someone to diagnose me

The first problem was saying

just wondering if its at all possible for this to be tulpa shit cuz it sure as hell doesnt sound like it

because you're no longer just asking "is this normal?", you're asking for validation on your assumption "I should be diagnosed as a traumatic system". This is especially so given the context of your next post where you list symptoms of why you believe this to be true:

considering the amount of - involuntary switches - bloody. cluster headaches and migraines - dissociation and blurriness - involuntary "walk-ins"/"splits"/whatever the fuck you want to call it - memory problems i dont think this is within the realm of tulpamancy atp. ik kitkat will just tell me im wrong but im tired of this, its really affecting us and it has been for years whether you want to hear it or not

and because of last time when I asked you to stop in DMs (I don't feel comfortable linking that in public)

I see two main problems that happened here. One is relying on a discord chat for help with mental and physical health problems. No one in chat can help with a headache or give proper accurate-to-the-person explanation on the reason for splitting headmates. The best we can do is direct them to see a professional yet the members of the server are receiving blame for not giving the desired answers/support. The other problem is An's system blaming everything on Kei's system mindset. They were in a state of distress and suffering from a headache, yet they were told that somehow they wouldn't be experiencing much of this if they didn't question their system type. This approach has been unhelpful and in the end pushed them away.

Yeah, the amount of redirecting system problems onto the people themselves annoys me about this server sometimes.

4:13 PM

It's not like it isn't always true, it's just not really helpful if they don't know how to solve the problem to begin with.

your blame is interesting because they reached out to me after they left and after short conversation and a nap their headache is gone (edited)

4:40 PM

and feel better

Aya

I see two main problems that happened here. One is relying on a discord chat for help with mental and physical health problems. No one in chat can help with a headache or give proper accurate-to-the-person explanation on the reason for splitting headmates. The best we can do is direct them to see a professional yet the members of the server are receiving blame for not giving the desired answers/support. The other problem is An's system blaming everything on Kei's system mindset. They were in a state of distress and suffering from a headache, yet they were told that somehow they wouldn't be experiencing much of this if they didn't question their system type. This approach has been unhelpful and in the end pushed them away.

For that last point- I don't think it's seprate from the first. It's hard to not say something that will make someone distressed more uncomfortable if you don't know them personally and lack the proper training like a therapist would. An's advice is valuable, but it either isn't applicable to Momo's system, it isn't the most therapeutic delivery for them, or both, assuming it didn't sink in for them. And I think that's the key here, we can't know what the best approach is or what is effective even when we have good advice to give. (edited)

I don't really care of a solution was met. It's a repeat issue of being very stern in redirecting system issues to the individual's own failings. I don't see it as a productive mindset.

”system issues”…

I said it can be correct, but the way it's shared on this server comes off as harsh to me.

you better be really sure something is a “system issue” when you try to solve a problem with tulpamancy

4:47 PM

you know they are on medication right?

Yes, yes I do.

4:47 PM

Which is WHY I pointed them to a professional, rather than tell them they're just "bad" at self regulating.

i said that too?

Sure, it can be true, but how productive is it to tell someone they're bad at self regulating? It doesn't provide a solution, it's just a feel-bad way of making it their fault.

There is a pandemic or self-inflicted issues in tulpamancy

4:50 PM

they have to be pointed out so people are aware it’s in their control

4:50 PM

and more likely seeking help with a doctor rather than from the randoms online

4:50 PM

that said, they are doing better now, so

leviine

Sure, it can be true, but how productive is it to tell someone they're bad at self regulating? It doesn't provide a solution, it's just a feel-bad way of making it their fault.

I do see An saying basically, 'you need to change your mindset by changing the labels you use', but I'm not seeing An saying that they're bad at regulating (unless I missed it?)

anyway i have a dinner to attend

Right right, alright.

4:51 PM

That's fine. I'm getting repeatedly annoyed with how this server handles things, but perhaps it really is the right eay of doing it

4:52 PM

I don't know. I'm not going to start another argument.

Is it the server or just a few members?

I may have the wrong idea, but I do get the frustration of hearing "change your mindset" when that doesn't always help. Especially with mental health problems, telling someone with say trichotillomania to stop pulling their eyelashes isn't going to work. Since this is ultimately a mental health issue, that's part of the problem- we can't be expected to deliver advice in a therapeutic way. I think it can also come across as more frustrating when it can be interpreted as "this is the problem with you" rather than "it could be xyz". I sensed the former, whether it was intended or not.

This^

The first point, the second, or both?

Both

Ah I see. I do want to elaborate that I think An is in the right regarding the first point, hence the "we're not doctors" argument. The second point I see as a communication issue. It's unclear what An was going for, but in general I can say it's much better practice to suggest someone could have a problem rather than they do have a problem

which part of what i said looked like blaming, in your opinion?

5:09 PM

it could help me avoid it in the future

5:10 PM

i wonder if the frustration comes from the people who aren’t experiencing much disorder in their functioning because they think that whatever i say to people exploring if they are disordered applies to the healthy ones, as well

5:11 PM

notice i didn’t say “disordered system”, with that comes a lot of assumption and baggage that the person han attach to themselves

5:14 PM

i personally try to encourage people who are experiencing mental difficulties to see a doctor, but i wouldn’t even suggest they are potentially “disordered”. in my view, telling someone they need to see a dictor by itself can be potentially harmful especially if the person doesn’t have means to do so. What i’m trying to do beside encouraging to see a doctor is to explain the role of narrative and system forcing that is part of dysfunction in plurality

TiCtAc(✧×✧)

which part of what i said looked like blaming, in your opinion?

In particular this

If you didn’t build a habit of sticking labels on things, you would be experiencing what you are experiencing now in a very different way You experience what you fo because of the narrative you build around it The narrative is built around the labels you use

i genuinely can’t see any blame here. I’m just explaining that if they didn’t build the habit of looking at this through the lens of plurality, they would look at it through the lens of the issues they are working with their docyor

5:17 PM

is jt something you disagree with?

5:18 PM

”if it wasn’t for plurality… you would just go to see the doctor that prescribed your meds and talk to them about the symptoms”

Although Momo was expressing frustration at not feeling like a tulpa system, the core problem is all the distressing symptoms they were experiencing. If someone is suffering from dissociation and migraine, I think the advice should be to alleviate those symptoms. Although I don't think that is the responsibility of a discord chat (as stated), advice such as having something to eat and drink, physically relaxing, sleeping may be more helpful than telling them their narrative is a problem in that moment

TiCtAc(✧×✧)

i genuinely can’t see any blame here. I’m just explaining that if they didn’t build the habit of looking at this through the lens of plurality, they would look at it through the lens of the issues they are working with their docyor

When a person says "If you didn't do X, you wouldn't have Y problem" this is a statement of blame, or it will sound that way to most people

Although Momo was expressing frustration at not feeling like a tulpa system, the core problem is all the distressing symptoms th...

@Aya - jump i agree - which is what we talked about in dms with kei

5:26 PM

When a person says "If you didn't do X, you wouldn't have Y problem" this is a statement of blame, or it will sound that way to ...

@Aya - jump i will need to think about how to phrase things like that differently in the future then, thank you for pointing it out

Alright

leviine

Yeah, the amount of redirecting system problems onto the people themselves annoys me about this server sometimes.

Luminesce: Big, terrible answer here: This is not a mental health server, it's a tulpamancy server. The way we give advice 100% works for tulpamancy. It's all completely malleable, subjective mental experiences, and your beliefs/ideas about how things should be are almost always how they will end up being (most that isn't is just letting your brain fill in the blanks you didn't define) (edited)

Aya

Although Momo was expressing frustration at not feeling like a tulpa system, the core problem is all the distressing symptoms they were experiencing. If someone is suffering from dissociation and migraine, I think the advice should be to alleviate those symptoms. Although I don't think that is the responsibility of a discord chat (as stated), advice such as having something to eat and drink, physically relaxing, sleeping may be more helpful than telling them their narrative is a problem in that moment

This is a reeaaalllly scary line to walk. You're not a doctor, you don't know what the right treatment plan looks like. It could be that a doctor would just tell them to stay off of Discord or to take medications for instance. I'm well aware that the line between therapy and tulpamancy can be hazy, but the context being more serious does not mean you should expect others to know the best therapy plan. I know with therapy there are right and wrong answers unlike tulpamancy, but we are not trained to give medical advice. It's unfair to be frustrated with someone who seems like they're giving the wrong answer for therapy in a tulpamancy server (edited)

Reisen

Luminesce: Big, terrible answer here: This is not a mental health server, it's a tulpamancy server. The way we give advice 100% works for tulpamancy. It's all completely malleable, subjective mental experiences, and your beliefs/ideas about how things should be are almost always how they will end up being (most that isn't is just letting your brain fill in the blanks you didn't define) (edited)

Luminesce: So if you don't want tulpamancy advice, but advice for dealing with disorders and such, you're asking in the wrong place. We're not to blame, we do what we can to accommodate unsure-mental-problems, but it's not our specialty (nor anyone else's on the internet, really) (edited)

1

7:01 PM

I've certainly done no lack of recommending people see a therapist or psychiatrist.

This is a tulpamancy server. We talk about tulpamancy. That’s our only topic. When you talk about your system, we will talk about tulpamancy. If your system isn’t tulpas, we cannot help you. We can’t identify what kind of system you have, only to say it is tulpas or it isn’t tulpas, that’s as far as you are going to get as a non tulpa system. I don’t know why this is a hard thing for people to understand.

Luminesce: And for the record, all of this framing about not leaning into disorderly thinking and choosing to think healthily does work for preventing normal people from accidentally falling into disorderly thinking and creating problems for themselves. (edited)

1

7:03 PM

It might not help someone who already has an actual disorder, though. Hence always recommending seeing a professional when you truly feel your problems are out of your control (edited)

Rusty

This is a tulpamancy server. We talk about tulpamancy. That’s our only topic. When you talk about your system, we will talk about tulpamancy. If your system isn’t tulpas, we cannot help you. We can’t identify what kind of system you have, only to say it is tulpas or it isn’t tulpas, that’s as far as you are going to get as a non tulpa system. I don’t know why this is a hard thing for people to understand.

I think the problem is tulpamancers in the questions channel are in the mindset of "help them". We encourage this behavior as a community, as we expect people to help others with tulpamancy. But the key is with tulpamancy. You're not being a jerk if you say "I'm sorry I can't help you, please see a doctor". The other part is we're used to having our advice being recognized as expertise. You are not a mental health practitioner by helping people with their life problems. Tulpamancy isn't therapy, and common sense thinking can actually undermine people in the wrong contexts. While I wish we can help people with therapy because I see so many people hurt, the truth is sadly giving unsolicited therapy can do more harm than good. And if we accidentally give out therapy advice, good or bad, that's not our fault. We can't be expected to be professionals, nor should we see ourselves as any kind of authority on this. (edited)

I don’t think the people here have an issue with that, I think we are all pretty good at recognizing things that we can’t help people with

Luminesce: I do think we have a problem with always trying to give help to anything that's asked of us, even when it's really unrelated to tulpamancy (edited)

7:13 PM

It's still nice to help people with those problems, but it does give the impression that this is a place such things should be asked in the first place

7:14 PM

We might need to write a disclaimer somewhere that questions here will be answered from a tulpamancy context and might not fit non-tulpa, disorderly plurality

I think the name TULPA questions is clear enough

7:16 PM

And the server being called TULPA.info

Luminesce: Yeah, but we clearly make our community open to other kinds of plurality (edited)

7:16 PM

So I think just having a disclaimer like that somewhere is fair

7:16 PM

At the very least because it's clearly something people are running into a lot

Do you think it’s possible for different individuals in a system to control different parts of the body at the same time

3:19 AM

like megazord from power rangers

3:19 AM

hyyypothetically? Seems really clumsy

i guess so but why would you want to? seems very hard to do for something that wouldnt be very great to do anyway

This is more of a why not scenario :P It may be more distracting than actually useful, but it sounds like a lot of fun! We have double switched-in before, it was hilarious (edited)

I would assume a requirement for doing this is to blast the Power Rangers theme as loudly as possible

Unironically I know at least one system that finds music helpful for switching

3:29 AM

For this fronting state, playing the theme may actually help a lot

I've been trying to find a good music track to play when Blanka's in, so there's some mental reinforcement there

3:29 AM

hard to find an album that I like but won't play at random and de-associate it from the switching experience

I'm the wrong person to ask for advice on music and switching. We share our mind music, and while we have preferences we don't dissociate from thenes unless it's trauma related Which is ironic to talk about now because Gray was just playing a theme that is associated with trauma but he loved the music so he played it anyways but felt okay

that’s a QWOP situation

what’s that stand for?

QWOP was a game where youd have to press the q w o p keys, moving the legs of the body(?) to win a race without falling over, it was incredibly difficult (edited)

thanks

Ayo, anyone else experience switching as only one system member existing at a time? Like I have a sense of Abvieon being somewhere, but not thinking. I can't normally talk to him while I'm in front and vice versa. Heard this was a thing some others experience.

can you switch whenever you want?

Only if he allows/wills it. I have to do the same for him to come back.

and you can talk out loud when switched, right?

7:30 PM

maybe you could switch back and forth and talk out loud to each other and you might find a state where you both are "there"